Covid vaccines, tests, guests, vendors

There was a similar post about this. However the bride wanted to make all guests get the vaccine in order to attend. Which I said is wrong for various reasons I told her she should have a second option like a negative covid test.


I feel as long as your guests can choose between a negative covid test or the vaccine then you are good and there is nothing wrong with it.

I'd be willing to speak to you but as a heads up, I don't think WW allows posts like this. You can PM me if you like.

Whoops...the email I got was that you'd replied to me, not Megan. Sorry about that!

You can PM me as well.

View Quoted Comment Same here, happy to talk about my experience with this! Feel free to PM me.

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100000% agree with every word.

View Quoted Comment Well said!
I think too many people approach this subject as though we are living in normal times.

Millions of people are dead; I truly do not give a hoot if someone is offended by a couple's efforts to prevent adding people to that toll.

View Quoted Comment Less than 50,000 Americans die of the flu each year.
More than half a million died within a year of the pandemic. Plenty of people who survived covid still have side effects. My sister's girlfriend was a healthy 19 year old who caught it a year ago and she still can't breathe in the mornings.
The flu is NOT comparable to covid.

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Agreed.

My fiancé and I are moving forward with a hard line "be vaccinated or don't come" stance for our wedding in late September. This includes vendors. We just lost our food vendor over this.

If we lose friends or family over it, that's their choice. They clearly don't, or are unwilling to understand the risks COVID-19 poses, especially to those that are severely immunocompromised or in very high risk categories. People that I've known have been on ventilators for weeks at time, almost died, or have died from the disease. The last thing I would want is for a breakthrough infection to happen at our wedding with some of our extremely high risk guests, someone not vaccinated to be infected and die, or a mutation to happen at our event that renders vaccines ineffective.

To those requiring vaccinations, we're in the same boat and stand with you on this. For those that don't understand why vaccinations are the solution, I'm not sure what more anyone can do to help. Talk to an actual medical doctor with training in virology and/or epidemiology, or a virologist or epidemiologist. The chiropractor, life coach, "Instagram health expert" do not have the educational background to effectively communicate the issue with you and should not be trusted for that information.

Language matters. Facts matter. Science matters.

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Negative Covid tests are simply a non-detect, not the same as a negative. Given that accurate PCR tests take at least a day to complete, the person may be too early in the pre-symptomatic stage to show a positive, or could pick it up between test time and wedding date. Remember, everyone in the Trump White House was constantly taking fast antigen tests, and they still had a breakout infection. Non-detect =/= negative.

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What would you consider a valid reason?

I have yet to see a scientifically valid reason for not taking one of the available vaccines with the exception of an allergy, or allergies, to one of the ingredients, that you fall into a yet to be determined potential blood clotting category (Astra Zeneca or J&J) which is a far, far lower risk than a blood clot from Covid itself, or that you are too young (under 16). All studies so far are showing that it is safe for women who want to get pregnant, who are are pregnant, or who are breast feeding. In fact, pregnant mothers are showing that they're passing along anti-bodies to the fetus and providing protection from birth. There are several pregnant, or new mothers, that are also medical doctors on social media documenting their experience being vaccinated. Over 50% of American adults have received at least their first shot. If there were any true immediate issues, we would have seen it already. In the long term, vaccines don't pose that kind of risk, provable by the 200ish years that we've been administering vaccines. Know anyone who's ever had small pox?

With all that said, is there something I'm not understanding or missing? I ask, because my fiancé and I have a hardline stance on vaccines unless there's a valid medical issue where someone who cannot get vaccinated. If there's a medical category I'm not thinking, I want to make sure I know, so I'm not downplaying a legitimate issues. If it turns out that there is someone in attendance at my wedding that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, that makes it all the more imperative that everyone else at the event be vaccinated to protect that individual.

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Hi Vivian,

This isn't specific wording, but wanted to throw the idea out there. My fiancé and I are thinking of framing the wedding as a "mask-less event" and the only way to safely do that is to ensure everyone in attendance is vaccinated.

View Quoted Comment I have repeatedly inquired with my doctor about the safety of the vaccine during pregnancy, and she does not believe that there is enough evidence to recommend it to pregnant or TTC women.


I will again preface this by saying I support vaccines broadly, but there are also studies that advise no vaccines of any kind during pregnancy because a negative immune response can harm the baby. The 2-dose vaccines have well-documented incidences of causing high fevers and other symptoms in healthy people, which I believe studies indicate could harm the baby. I would not risk getting a 104 degree fever while pregnant.
Also the history of vaccines isn't completely rosy. There was an incident with a polio vaccine that harmed hundreds of children.

The reality of public health is that mandated measures often undermine confidence and increase resistance. Forced public health interventions are an absolute last resort. I don't support the government mandating the vaccine, so I definitely don't support people forcing it on their wedding guests.
Lastly, people with weakened immune systems may be advised not to get it. There could be dozens of reasons a doctor would recommend against it. I highly caution you against making yourself the arbiter of a "valid medical condition". It's invasive and you will lose friends.

View Quoted Comment What I said is absolutely true-- for the *most vulnerable members of our society* covid and the flu pose the same risks. Note that I didn't say they are equally deadly or dangerous to the general population.


I have been the person walking on eggshells during flu season so I don't put my sister in the ICU. We don't require people to get a flu vaccine to be around her or attend our events.

View Quoted Comment Thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood what you meant. That's sad your sister is so vulnerable, good on you for being careful! I hope you both stay safe.


Personally, if someone I knew was that vulnerable to the flu and wasn't comfortable being in close contact with me unless I had my flu shot, I would not find that unreasonable at all. But if I did find it unreasonable, that's okay, I just wouldn't see them.

View Quoted Comment I understand where you’re coming from and have heard similar medical doctor advice from friends, which also changed soon after as more studies came out, but wouldn’t that make it much more imperative that everyone else be vaccinated surrounding the pregnant woman. In a stroke of massive irony, I’ve seen studies showing that getting the flu while pregnant (the actual flu, not a reaction to the vaccine) significantly increases the risk of the child being born with autism. It’s possible getting Covid while pregnant is orders of magnitude for harmful to the unborn child.


I also wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion that the government shouldn’t mandate vaccines because it undermines confidence. It’s like telling a toddler they have to eat their vegetables before dessert. Sure, you’re undermining their confidence in you as a friend, but that’s not what your there for. Give them an option and they won’t do it. When that non-vegetable eating toddler can pose a significant threat to society by not eating their vegetables, you can’t get them an option. Simply look to the Orange County measles outbreaks over the past few years. I mean, who doesn’t wear a seat belt? The government mandates that. The Internet, in all its glory, is a very effective tool at further ingraining willful ignorance. But, I’m not telling anyone to get vaccinated. I’m saying if they want to accept my invitation to my wedding (or be hired as a vendor) they need to be vaccinated. What happens when you tell your guests it’s a black tie event? Or that it’s a destination wedding? They have to comply with your requests, or not attend. I’ve also talked to several of my potential guests about what they’re comfortable with. Many have said they won’t be comfortable, or will likely not attend if we can’t guarantee that everyone on site is vaccinated. There’s two sides to every coin.
I don’t mind losing friends over this. I’ve lost people I know to Covid. If my friends can’t see the value in doing something to not only protect themselves, but their neighbor, then I’m not sure we ever should have been friends in the first place. The quickest way to end this pandemic is for everyone to get vaccinated. Almost 600k Americans have died from it. I’m on hear being vocal about it to make sure other people who think the same and are currently planning a wedding have other like minded individuals that support them.

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I agree with this. We are asking our guests to be vaccinated for the comfort and safety of all our guests. We have chosen to prioritize our high risk parents' participation over those of people we are not as close to who might not choose to be vaccinated. No one is obligated to attend our wedding at all. If any of our guests want to be offended by us creating a safe environment for our parents because they feel it infringes on their personal choice, then we don't see eye or eye or share similar values and discontinuing the friendship is of no consequence to me.

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Ryan, I love your insight here. I've held off commenting on yours and Ivory's recent additions, but I think you both make great points.

We have three guests who are pregnant and all three have chosen to be vaccinated. They have made decisions with their doctors and families (in two cases, the family members of these women are in the medical field) to align their vaccination schedule at optimal points in their pregnancy. One waited until after her first trimester, when risk of pregnancy loss is typically highest, and the other two are due soon so decided to get their first shot during their final month of pregnancy, that way the baby would receive antibodies from the first dose but they would avoid the second shot (which typically has stronger side effects) until after delivery (second shot can be administered up to six weeks later, per current CDC guidance). Fever, regardless of cause, has been linked to increased fetal developmental issues. This is why pregnant women are encouraged to get the flu shot - because risk of fever with the actual flu is quite high, and the flu shot reduces that risk significantly. Fever, unfortunately, is a not uncommon side effect of Covid vaccines, so it is understandable that pregnant women may be wary. Many medical professionals who are recommending the Covid vaccine to pregnant women are encouraging them to have fever reducing medicines on hand and carefully monitor side effects post vaccination. It is safe for a pregnant woman to take acetaminophen at the first sign of fever, and this way women can safely be vaccinated (and their babies can benefit from their moms being vaccinated) without undo worry about possible vaccine side effects. Covid itself can be incredibly dangerous for pregnancy, and most medical professionals I have spoken with feel that the advantages of Covid vaccination for pregnant women far outweigh the risks. Of course every situation is nuanced. For women who live in households where everyone works from home and are in areas with low community transmission, it may be reasonable to wait until after pregnancy to be vaccinated because the risk of infection is very low and can be managed well with standard mitigation practices. On the other hand, for women who have high levels of close contact with individuals outside their household and in areas where community transmission is high, getting vaccinated can be one of the safest things they do for their offspring. My husband and I are trying to conceive so I did as much research as I could before being vaccinated in case we happened to be pregnant at the time, and also had open conversations about vaccination with my pregnant friends. Moms are judged all the time for every thing they do and don't do (for example, one of our friends got her first shot just one month before her due date and told us she got death glares from other people at the vaccination clinic). If any of our pregnant friends had indicated they were holding off on vaccination after speaking with their doctor, we absolutely would have respected that and its also the reason why it would be all the more important for those around them who could be vaccinated to be vaccinated. None of our pregnant friends decided to skip the vaccination entirely so we aren't in the position where we need go to a Plan B, but if we only had 1-2 guests who could not be vaccinated for legitimate reason, we may have considered a quarantine, test, and retest option for them (using isolation combined with a negative PCR test result within 3 days of our event AND a negative antigen "rapid test" result upon arrival).

I agree completely with your sentiment that your wedding is your event and you can dictate what the expectations are. Black tie, destination, specific theme, adults only, vaccinations required, whatever. Weddings are private events hosted by the couple, and the couple chooses what they want the event to look like, and then guests decide if they want to attend. Guests decline wedding invites all the time for any number of reasons, and they are fully within their rights to decline your invitation to your "vaccinations required" if they choose not to be vaccinated.

My mom and my FIL are both very high risk. It is more important to us that they can safely enjoy our event than that person number #76 on our 76 person guest list who chooses not to be vaccinated can attend. Chances are guest #76 totally gets it, respectfully declines our invite, and our friendship continues without consequence. If guest #76 chooses to be offended instead, I'm totally fine with them revealing what a self-absorbed person they are so I can discontinue investing time in that relationship. We have three of 76 guests who are choosing not to be vaccinated, which is impacting a total of seven guests. All of them are understanding of our position and agree we should be prioritizing our vulnerable parents' safety above their own freedom of choice. All of our other guests are glad that we are requiring vaccination and will feel safer attending and enjoy their experience more knowing that everyone has been vaccinated. Our vendors are also very on board with our decision.

View Quoted Comment Well said! I always find it so odd whenever people assume requiring vaccines to attend a private event means you're forcing people to get vaccinated. All it means is that you're establishing your boundaries for the sake of not spreading this deadly disease and they can decide for themselves whether or not they're comfortable with those boundaries. If they're not comfortable getting vaccinated, no one's making them!
Strongly agree on that last sentence too: I have zero issue with cutting people out of my life if we don't share the same values. I already know I'm not inviting anyone in my extended family for this reason, so if I was in your shoes and someone was mad at me for doing what I needed to keep my parents alive, I would just be happy to end that relationship then and there!

For all those interested, due to guidelines that just came out where we are getting married, vaccinated groups of people can now gather in indoor spaces (with social distancing) without masks, and food and drink can be consumed outside of the tables. We had been toying with the idea of allowing a COVID-19 Neg test, but we are now requiring vaccinations only. Also, now that the CDC has released data that it is OK for pregnant women to get vaccinated, we feel better about this decision. If someone is a high risk pregnancy and should NOT get the vaccine, then I would hope they would not be coming to a wedding anyway.

Here is our wording (similar to some others)

"As our wedding date approaches, we are continuing to monitor local COVID-19 restrictions and policies.

Out of an abundance of caution for the wellbeing and safety of our family and friends, we are asking all those planning to attend our wedding in person to be fully vaccinated with documentation 14 days prior to our wedding date.

We understand that not all of our friends and family are able to or want to be vaccinated, and we completely understand. We will be live streaming the ceremony for those who are unable or choose not to get the COVID-19 vaccination. Though we wish we could celebrate with you in-person, we hope you can join us virtually!

Please reach out with any questions you may have."

For those asking - our city policies state that "proven vaccination" is necessary, so we will be checking vaccination cards for our guests with their RSVPs or at the door.