Newlywed Fighting

Just to revisit a point MNA made that seems to be lost in the shuffle- your daughter needs to be counseling ASAP. I am saying that as someone who has been that little girl and had to cope with the damage later because I seemed to be handling everything just fine. I am not saying you are a bad parent, just that a divorce and two "forever" relationships in six or seven years, even without the fighting, is too much for a child to handle without disinterested professional help. It will save you a lot of agony in her teen years if she talks to someone now.

This is exactly why DH and I lived together for 2.5 years before tying the knot. The first 6 or so months of living together was the toughest part of our relationship to date. We also fight VERY differently, so we've worked to make the other person understand where the other is coming from. It's been a work in progress, but we've come a long way.

My daughter has been seeing a therapist/counselor about once a month for the past year. Her dad and I thought it would be good following the divorce, but waited until she was old enough to communicate her feelings in the way she can now.

You're probably right that she hears some of it. I'm not sure how to resolve conflict if we can't attempt it when she's awake or asleep.

The fights have nothing to do with the household. It's mostly around me feeling like he wasn't considerate in expressing something. For example, my daughter had a cheer performance on Tuesday, and my husband has a demanding boss, but he told me he would leave early to come. I told him ahead of time that parking would be a challenge and they would charge him to get in so I could give him cash if he needed it (we usually don't carry it). He told me he had cash and would leave early. My daughter and I were there at 5 so she could practice but I told him it would happen around half time (6). About 5:30, I texted and asked if he was coming and he said he was on his way. I didn't know when he left or how long he had left to drive (he works about 45 min away). He also asked me if they would charge because he didn't have cash. I said yes. I texted about 5:50 and asked how far he was because they were starting in about 5-10 minutes. He said he was 10 min away and still had to get cash. I told him not to worry about it because he wouldn't make it. I was upset and the performance was super quick so we were home by 6:15. He wasn't and hadn't responded to my text. By 6:45, I texted and asked what he was doing, no response. He walked into the house about 7 with groceries and I kind of gave him the cold shoulder (mistake) but was responsive to his affection and conversation about work. I started warming up when I realized what a rough day he had at work and didn't say anything about being upset. I was trying to be understanding. Later while talking, I mentioned being upset but casually and it bothered him. Further in the conversation about our days, it evolved and I started talking about a baby, which we've talked about. He started saying he wasn't sure about having a baby because of the little fights it could spark, like that day. I got upset since I thought we were on the same page and the conversation quickly escalated and he said "I don't want a baby" and left the room. Because I'm a pursuer, I followed and tried to talk to him. He started being mean and passive aggressive, which I'm sure is because he wanted space that I wasn't giving. I was trying to ground the conversation by talking about our commitment to each other and love for each other, but he was unresponsive. He just kept saying I should never get upset about little stuff because he's doing the best he can. I told him that all I need is for him to communicate more and he kept telling me it was my fault, taking no responsibility for any of it. Of course, I was crying and feeling helpless. We went in circles and he kept telling me I didn't understand, but when I would ask what he meant by something and he would try to explain it, I would tell him what I was getting from what he said, he would get frustrated and say that I'll just never understand. He came home late from work last night and went straight to bed. He was cold this morning and when I probed him about it, he said he still felt icky and was confused by the things I put weight on. It again turned into finger pointing to me. I feel like I knocked a building over by accident and I keep asking him to help me put it back together but he keeps pointing at the building and telling me I'm wrong for knocking it over. I understand my role in the mess, have acknowledged it and apologized for it, but now it's time to come together and fix it.

Ultimately, I think he feels like because his intentions are good, everything should be fine and dandy all the time. The reality is when you share a life with someone, you have to be considerate with your communication. So I understand his frustration but he's refusing to look at it through my lens.

We got into a couple big fights on the honeymoon too. We got in super late and hardly slept on the plane. So the first day, we were exhausted but had a bunch of activities planned. I asked him that evening what the plan was for the next day. He said "same as today". We got to the park at noon, so I took that to mean we'd take it easy in the morning since we hadn't slept much. He woke me up at 8 and said "hey babe, it's 8". I told him I wanted to sleep more so he went to grab breakfast by himself. When he came back, I was still out and he said "okay well I'm going to go do some activities then" and when I called him to come talk to me, he ignored me. Later when we talked about it, he said I should've tried harder to get his attention and couldn't answer why he didn't respond the first three times I tried to talk to him.

So, a lot of deflection, a lot of giving up on his part.

I told him I made an appointment with the therapist and he told me he doesn't want to go. I asked him to think about it and he said he would but I think he said it so I would back off.

I also tried writing in a journal to see if that would help us communicate since it's not so in your face. I put it in his work bag and told him about it last night and he left it on the table this morning.

It's all so confusing and I feel at a loss for what to do.

I feel like I just need to back off.

The likely hood he cares to go out of his way to support you kid sounds low. Unfortunately- but that's concerning. And really he should have just told you he wasn't going to make it rather than just passively aggressively put it off. And this is very much into the world of "expectation management"

Secondly- I see a problem

- there is an issue/problem

- You address it

- He says X

- You say it makes you feel like Y

- He says- you don't understand.

that's a problem- a HUGE problem.

Because you aren't a fucking mind reader. And you can only take at face value what he's saying. And if it makes you feel a certain way- that isn't necessarily wrong. Feelings are your feelings. He can't tell you NOT to feel that way.

Being said- if he's just dismissing you because you don't understand you need to say "help me understand because if I'm misunderstanding- and I want to understand only you can help me understand because I'm just taking what you say at face value"

Sounds like he's trying gaslight you and put it back on you.

Definitely read some books on communication.

And go get counseling- with or without him.

I'd also have a clear conversation about fighting and how he wants to handle it.

It's acceptable for him to want time to himself. But you have to come to some sort of resolution at some point. You need to come to an agreement and ask him what he wants to do in terms of handling that- so you can have a set "break"

like- you fight- you get an hour or two break and come back to the table.

OR- fight- w/draw and write down issues- and then read them to each other- each person gets to read out loud what grievance they have.

@Fall: I stand by what I said, which is only underscored bY what op just added.

The kinds of issues you're seeing are not "just moved in together" spats, which frequently focus on the habits of each individual. They are focused on behaviors and expectations: that comes from not knowing a person well enough, and from the expectations and reality not meshing.

I'm not saying moving in doesn't have a period of adjustment. Im saying that isn't the big issue for op. Hers goes way beyond that.

Agree with @JoRocka. I just want to add in that I had some communication issues when we first moved in. My husband was very "I don't want to talk about it" because his family just has horrible communication skills. And I'm definitely a pursuer and always am like "What's wrong, let's work it out." I remember one fight at the very beginning, don't remember what it was about, but I asked him what's wrong, and I consciously did not talk, did not interrupt, didn't utter a word, for about 45 minutes. And I'd say about 30-35 minutes of it we were sitting in silence. But I let him formulate his thoughts and what he was feeling and it took him a while because he didn't have the skills really. It literally took all my effort not to speak. But toward the end, we got to what was really bugging him, and were able to work it out. And now he is a lot better at saying how he feels.

Not sure if this would work for your situation, and I still highly recommend counseling, but when one person in a relationship has better developed communication skills, you may have to work on not just him communicating with you but learning how to communicate in general.

FH originally thought that any fight we had meant we were breaking up. He didn't realize that in relationships, there will be arguments occasionally and what really makes or breaks a relationship is how you choose to handle an argument and running away from it isn't a fix. FH and I now have figured out the balance between giving space and resolving the issue. Counseling for the win!

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. It is really helpful.

Can I just add in here that take the baby talk off the table for a while. Like a long while. You guys need to work on your relationship before you throw children into the mix.

That not living together plays a major part.

@Helena Handbasket, yea, that goes without saying at this point. But, a child is already in the mix.

Yes there is. And it's your child. He doesn't put in the effort or recognize things that you feel are important to your daughter right now. Did you sit down and talk about what his role is going to be in her life? What your exceptions are in regards to co-parenting of step children as compared to your own children(if you have any down the line)?

I think it is the not living together part. There is always a lot of fighting when you first start living with someone. Me and FH fought like crazy when we first moved in together. You will get through this.

We've discussed the step-parent role, but I think it's less about the specifics of that role or the importance he puts on an event than his work being demanding. His boss is kind of a jerk, calling him at home for hours sometimes, expecting him to work until 7 or 8 (salaried) or on the weekends, without much recognition. And he's awesome at his job. He has missed his own doctor appointments because of his boss. My ability to leave work early is much different than his. The issue is the lack of communication or even understanding about the timeline that would require him to communicate. He tried to make it. When I told him nevermind, he tried anyway but it was too late when he got there. So he left. He just didn't text or call me to tell me when it was happening. His issue is that because of the effort he makes, I shouldn't get upset ever. That I should know who he is as a person and know his intentions are always the best. I think missing the reality of what it means when sharing a life with someone is the root of the issue.

I'm just lost because his belief in this is causing him to stonewall and making it feel impossible to come to any understanding or resolution. When quite honestly, I don't think it needs to be nearly as heavy as he is making it.

And we could discuss the timeline that we dated, got married, whether we lived together or not as the root of the issues, but it becomes as irrelevant as spilling milk. I can't unspill it. I can only work to clean it up. That's where I'm at and I feel a bit lost.

But many of you have given me solid suggestions and advice and I really appreciate it.

It kinda sounds like he needs to mature into the relationship. Is this his first serious relationship? Passive aggressiveness seems immature to me. It is as if he hasn't learned how to communicate and his expectations are that op should know what he is thinking/feeling which is a demonstration of someone who has never reflected upon their own faults and taken steps to change themselves to be better communicators. I think the main problem is that you didn't get to know who he is. I agree with pp that you needed at least two years to know the complete person he is.

FH and I have been together for over 3 years. We don't live together but we live 2.5 miles away and spend 75% of our time together either alone or with our 4 kids (his 3 and my 1)

I am still learning things about him. He lectured me last night for the way I loaded the dishwasher. I was taken aback but then again when he cooks at my house he always does the clean up and same at his house so in 3 years he had never seen me load the dishwasher. I laughed at him and sprayed him with water as he was telling me why you don't put wooden spoons in the dishwasher.

I'm 44 and too old to get my feelings hurt over that but 20 years ago I would have been defensive and more than likely in tears. So it goes to show you really don't know a person until time has passed and you live together.

@Anne, he had a four year relationship when he was in his early twenties. He dated someone else for about a year and a half. From what I understand, multiple relationships/dating situations have ended because of his lack of communication, but we've discussed it multiple times, so maybe that's why he's sick of feeling like he's making an effort within scope of perception and I'm here telling him it still isn't enough.

I do feel his fighting style is extremely immature, but I can only control me. I'm doing what I feel is best in the moment and trying to respect that we grew up differently and think differently while not blurring the boundaries of common courtesy and respect.

Living with FH made our lives easier and we had no trouble adjusting. Some people aren't as lucky and it takes work to make it work. I honestly don't think that living together is the root of your problem though. If your fights were about little things, like arguing over leaving clothes out or someone putting in more work to clean than the other, then I'd say it is definitely just something that you guys will need time to adjust to. Being that the fights seem to be unrelated to chores and/or sharing a living space, I'd say that the problem is lying within the two of you. It is possible that being around each other more is opening up more opportunities to fight about the problems that are lying within your relationship. FH and I had a lot of fights in the beginning of our relationship because we needed to learn how to communicate in a more proactive way. It took over a year for us to really get make noticeable changes, but we both wanted it to happen, so we put in the work. I think counseling will do much more for you guys than hashing it out the way me and FH did, but when there is a will, there is a way, either way... as long as you both have that will. I hope everything works out Julie. Patience will be your friend and your reactions can definitely help his reactions. It seems you are very aware of yourself so maybe you can try working on your reactions as a first step to opening him up to the start of a solution. Most people take in facial expressions and tone of voice far beyond words when they are angry. So, when you're upset, try to control your tone of voice and your facial expression so he doesn't feel attacked. Try using words like "I feel..." instead of words like "you did/didn't" so it doesn't fall on anyone. I think you guys need a really deep heart to heart where you can talk to him about the things that you can *both* do to improve your relationship. Make sure you talk to him about this at the right time, especially with the way work has him all tense and everything.

Don't freak out yet! I almost broke up with FH when we first moved in together. It was pretty rough between us for about 1.5 months. Like your DH, my FH was a major withdrawer and I am a pursuer. He was horrible at first! For us, it even got to the place where I told my parents I might leave him! Then it just got better. We haven't really had any similar issues since. Actually, I don't think we've had single fight in 6 months... My point is that living together is a big adjustment. Give yourself time. Don't give up yet.