Ordained Online - Suffolk County, Long Island

Does anyone have experience with this in my area (Suffolk County, NY/Brookhaven) and do you know if my friend does it, will it be legal within New York State?

thanks for any help!

I'm not 100% sure about your area, but from what I've seen on the forum New York has very strict policies with this generally speaking. It would be easier to do as your priest suggested honestly, and safer since this is something I really would feel uncomfortable chancing personally (I've called the courthouse in our county where we'll be getting married at least 3 times to make sure our officiant can do it lol) though it really sucks that he dropped that on you so close to the wedding.

Celia is the one who would know the answer to this!

If you are not required to registrar, I think it still makes it legal. A family member is doing mine and was ordained online as well. We are getting married in NJ which can have different restrictions but he does not need to registrar. The county we are getting married in simply said that when we get our marriage license, she will ask for his information (name, address, age, & license #) and that will be in. In NJ, the officiant is the one who needs to bring the marriage license back to the county after the wedding but that is different in each state I think.

This is the website he used and here is some info about NY https://theamm.org/minister-licensing/new-york/

You should page Celia or Nancy T.

Yes Celia lives around NJ/NY area.

First of all, do not take legal advice from other people on a wedding forum. NJ is one of the easiest in terms of rules, (that's good and bad, trust me....) And Future? You "officiant" will not have a license #, nor will anyone ask for it. Licenses in NJ have nothing to do with the county. Your family member and you need to do some research, but you have time.

But I digress.

Catherine, you do not want to screw with Long Island. Seriously. NYC requires all officiants to register, but LI has an extra layer of aggravation. I don't even go there, nor will I send any of my officiants there.

Contact April Gismondi, from the church of ancient ways. She is very easy to find. ; 516-785-4191, and have her do a swift and simple wedding. Do this today.

Hi and congratulations!

I agree with your Priest. Online ordinations are a huge grey area in New York. There is an article on my web site that sites the cases that are still in the courts. Here is a copy and past of the article as well as links to 2 other sources on the subject.

Are friends and family members with online ordinations legally able to perform marriage ceremonies on Long Island?

“New York County trial judge stated in 2014 that marriages performed by ULC ministers in New York State are potentially invalid or at the very least in jeopardy. “

Online ordinations are indeed a can of worms. My advice is, if you really want your friend to get ordained online to perform your ceremony, just get legally married at town hall first. Then do what ever you want for the public ceremony. There are many samples here on my site that you are welcome to use. If you want to be legally married in front of family and friends, then hire someone who is legal to marry you. If you have been married by someone ordained online, go down to Town Hall and get legally married.

The case that will hopefully put an end to the controversy is still making it’s way through the New York courts. – Oswald v. Oswald, 2013 N.Y. Slip Op. 02811 (N.Y. App. Div. 2013). Here on Long Island the Online Ordinations have been very popular, among “professionals” and non-professionals alike. DJ’s, banquet managers, receptionists, even some long time officiants may not actually have the authority to marry in New York State. So always check credentials.

A recent New York court ruling, from a different appellate court, than mentioned above ruled that it is a factual question whether the ULC is a “church” whose ministers have authority under New York law to solemnize a marriage, and it remanded the case to the trial court for further proceedings. Although this case also remains pending, a New York County trial judge stated in 2014 that marriages performed by ULC ministers in New York State are potentially invalid or at the very least in jeopardy. – Ponorovskaya v. Stecklow, 2014 NY Slip Op 24140 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2014).

A wedding is a once in a lifetime event to celebrate a marriage. There should be no reason to wonder if you are actually married or not… Making good choices from the beginning is a far better decision than wondering what to do after the fact. Does “click here and your in business” sound too good to be true? Well odds are it is. Does it say on the ordination web site that you can perform weddings anywhere and everywhere? Of course it does! But that’s like asking Phillip Morris if cigarettes cause cancer.

Another reason that online ordinations are particularly frowned upon is that there is no identification process. The ULC requirement is that you are over the age of 13 in order to become a minister. As an example I had Sebastian Basset ordained last year. Not only is he a real Basset Hound, but he also passed away in 2008.

When the Federal Government granted Church of Ancient Ways full church status in 1997, I wrote my bylaws to mirror New York State law, so my people would be in compliance. NYC has decided to forgo the congregational requirement that still stands in the rest of the state. So they do register online officiants.

Nassau and Suffolk do not require registration and do not check credentials when processing a license. Honestly, you could fill it out at the kitchen table yourselves, using the names of your favorite TV characters, and Town Hall would still process it. Unfortunately having a Certificate of Marriage from the state, doesn’t mean that you are legally married. How on earth can this be? I for one have no idea. But this is the reality of the current situation.

The problem would be if one of you wanted no longer to be married, and to disenfranchise the other by having the marriage declared invalid because the officiant did not meet the state’s requirements. In the cases where this has happened, Ravenal v. Ravenal and Raniere v. Raniere for example, the marriages were declared null and void. That equated to no equitable distribution of assets… So if you are unsure about being married, having a friend ordained online might be even better than a prenuptial agreement. Or at least for one of you.

The ruling of null and void also opens the door to other liability. Things like health care benefits that were paid but not due, taxes that were filed jointly without legal right, all come into question. It becomes a mess. On top of all that, after the current case is finally through the Supreme Court, if the ruling is not retroactive, everyone married prior to the ruling will still be in this grey area.

I had a couple come last fall with a second license for me to sign, so there would be no question as to the validity of their marriage. He had cancer and his children didn’t like the wife. He had no doubt that as soon as he passed, they would contest the will and try to have the marriage declared invalid because a friend, ULC ordained, married them. Although I was able to help them, their situation still saddens me to this day.

Once again, with all that said, my advice is, if you really want your friend to get ordained online to perform your ceremony, just get legally married at town hall first. If you want to be legally married in front of family and friends, hire someone who is legal to marry you. If you have been married by someone ordained online, go down to Town Hall and get legally married.

Full article:

http://www.churchofancientways.org/articles/validity-online-ordinations-long-island/

Wikipedia on the ULC with rulings noted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Life_Church

New York Times Article "Making Sure That Online Officiant Is Legal"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/fashion/weddings/making-sure-that-online-officiant-is-legal.html?_r=1

Thank you everyone for your feedback, you've been extremely helpful!

Sorry, I can only tell you about Florida requirements. So, listen to Celia & April who are in that area.

I deeply researched this wanting to know for two reasons, I am getting married myself in September, and also because I myself am ordained through two very reputable ministries , both online. I wanted to know the laws well. Yes you may use an officiant ordained online. Hope that helped-let me know if you need me! I am so excited-getting married at Crestwood Manor in Northport. Still speaking with officiants and pastors. Much luck ladies!

I have screenshotted laws straight from the government website, clerks office, etc. perfectly legal.

Melissa,

Thank you for leaving a bad review on my profile, even though you did not use my services. It really did seem like something personal. However, opinions are one thing, facts are another, and I still stand by all the information that I gave you.

DO NOT take my word on this. Have your lawyer look up the most current case. –

Ponorovskaya v. Stecklow, 2014 NY Slip Op 24140 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2014).

There is also a New York Times discussion on this subject.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/fashion/weddings/making-sure-that-online-officiant-is-legal.html?_r=0

As well as the information on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Life_Church

The Town of Smithtown recently removed everyone from their officiants list that did not have Civil Authority. Because of grey area that online ordinations have created, they have limited their list to Judges, Mayors and Clerks.

Some of the catering halls that myself and my officiants work for have been asked by their lawyers to keep our credentials on file, because of the liability issues created by the potential non validity of marriages performed by those who do not meet New York State's requirements.

I sign marriage licenses for free at showcases and I give away every kind of ceremony under the sun all on my web site. My concerns here are not business related, but moral objections.

Although you contacted me as Melissa Steinberg in your recent email, one of my officiants pointed out to me that last October, as Melissa Lynch, you posted an offering of your officiant services on a post that I had made to my own wall on Facebook. The reaction you got from my followers was unpleasant and my reaction was not exactly friendly... as would be expected.

How interesting it is that you would change your name and contact me now, requesting officiant services, with no mention of being the girl who tried to advertise on my wall. How interesting that you post my first negative review in 273 reviews.

I hope this has been the marketing bonanza that you were looking for.

Melissa, first of all, you can't advertise here. And second, clearly you have an ax to grind; it's very, very obvious. You contacted April to troll for information and now you're pissed that you didn't hear what you wanted.

April is a personal friend of mine and a well respected colleague, and trying to trash her online is a lapse in judgement on your part. She has been doing stellar work in LI for years against a backdrop of difficult legalities. I am not ordained online, and I'm registered with NYC, but even I won't go to Long Island; it is just problematic.

You need to have a congregation, you should be registered in NYC, but more importantly?

You need to be good at his. You need to be adept at writing a ceremony (or were you thinking about just copping one from some site online?), you need to command a room, set a mood and then deal with the legalities. You think it's easy?

It's not. Which is why April and me and Nancy and Judith and Patrick are so good at this....because we didn't just get ordained online and pimp ourselves out. We did the work to be good.

The rules for LI are so a muddled area, But its very clear that online ordination isn't valid in LI

What sources do you have that makes this “very clear”?

LI is comprised of 13 Towns across 2 County’s. Different rules on different things for each.

I’ve seen differing opinions, but nothing “very clear” at all. I was ordained online because I plan to marry 2 dear friends...on LI. I have spoken to the Town Clerk and the County Clerk where I am and if I were (I am) going to proceed based on anything resembling “very clear”, it would be to go forward because no official has said anything to suggest we should not.

If you have a source other than other people’s opinions, please share it/them. Otherwise, consider casting wide nets of your own opinions, it only further confuses people.

Hi Thomas,

I'd like for my godfather to marry my fiance and I but he would have to get ordained first. Should I check with the town we're residents in on whether or not this is valid or should I check with the town clerk for the town we are getting married in?