Just a thought...... I often read "we are not officially engaged, but we are planning xyz" or "when we are officially engaged...". I have always taken that once there is a conversation that contains the words, "will you marry me", " lets get married", "how about we get married" etc and both parties agree with said statement that you are engaged - ring or no ring, fancy proposal or conversation standing in your kitchen while drinking you morning coffee, once the conversation is had and agreed to, you are engaged. So how are people not officially engaged, but engaged at the same time? Surely you are one or the other? I had a friend who talked about getting married to her DH for 8 years before there was an actual proposal/ proper conversation, they then said they were engaged and got married a few years later..So these are just a rambling thoughts, but would love to hear other peoples thoughts on the subject, as I'm sure there are loads.